Fw: Fw: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal...

Does this make sense to you? Remember it when elections roll around in Nov.

Here is an example of why hiring illegal aliens is not economically
productive for the State of California (and many other states)...

You have 2 families..."Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have 2
parents, 2 children and live in California.

"Joe Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes
$25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted....

"Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has "NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per year
Now take 30% away for state federal tax Joe Legal now has $31,231.00

Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per year
Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00

Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00 per month
$12,000.00 per year Joe Legal now has $19,231.00

Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00

Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare
Joe Legal pays for food $1,000.00 per month $12,000.00 per year Joe Legal now has
$ 7,231.00

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare
Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month 12,000.00 per year
Joe Legal is now in the hole... minus (-) $4,769.00

Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy Jose Illegal pays rent
$500.00 per month $6,000.00 per year Jose Illegal still has $25,200.00

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch.

Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's
children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Don't vote/support any politician that supports illegal aliens...
Its PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!=============


Anonymous said...

Few things. First, as expected, the hypothetical math is wrong. 70% of 52000 is 36400 (not that it matters). Also, how does 19231-12000 equal negative 4769? (hint: it doesn't). Maybe Joe should learn to live within his means. Or maybe he's just the kind of person who would benefit from some kind of universal health care system. That is, if its not too socialist/evil for him.

I'm not sure about the food stamps and rent subsidy but my thinking is that you need to be a citizen or at least have a social security number in order to get them. So if this hypothetical immigrant was indeed getting them, it means he also has some kind of ssn (probably fake), meaning he does indeed end up paying taxes. You can't have it both ways, either he's a non-person or he's in the system.

Finally, the idea that its politicians who are "supporting" illegals misses the point. Its not politicians, its business. Think hard wingnuts: where does that extra $10 an hour which the boss would be paying Joe go to? Into the boss's pocket! The minute that illegal immigrants start hurting instead of helping the bottom line, I guarantee we will have an immigration crackdown. Until then they will continue to make use of this loophole in the labor market to drive down their costs and drive up their profits.

Finally, think about what happens when we change the names in the example to Joe Standard and Jimmy Walmart. Suddenly the exact same points become anti-Walmart, anti-big business, and presumably anti-American (at least to the writer of this email).

Anonymous said...

Sorry I put two finallys. When I get going I can't always stop.

Anonymous said...

I won't even get into the math errors, the incorrect assumptions about the safety net available for undocumented workers or any of the other errors. But, the forward does expose a problem in the country: employers skirting employment laws and payroll taxes.

I'm all for pretty open immigration policy, but "illegal" hiring of any type should be squashed. The mythical pure small business man has a time honored tradition of paying guys under the table, whether named "Jose" or "Joe". That's depriving the US of A of payroll taxes which could be used to support universal health care, plus its not like off the books employees get benefits anyway. Maybe instead of latent racism against "Jose", the GOP should direct their outrage at businesses that continue grey market employment.

Case in point: remember the Mitt Romney lawn care kerfuffle? Romney hired a company to do his lawn. The company employeed illegal aliens (and presumably paid them covertly). Everyone got up in arms that there was another Zoe Baird problem, and when it was discovered that the fault lie not with Mitt but the small business lawn care company, the issue vanished. Mitt, it should be noted, did things correctly and legally. The company he hired did not. Where was the outrage?

Anonymous said...

Thanks to first post, whether two "finallys" or not. You summed up a lot of good points.

Another point is that MANY so-called illegals do pay taxes, at least state taxes. It is more than what most of these racist stooges want to tell. And yes, many also use fake ssn, which results in benefiting "Joe Legal" but not "Jose Illegal."

This kind of simplistic & racist nonsense drives me crazy.

The first post is right: it's not the eeevul librul pols who are "supporting" illegals; it's business. Furthermore, if someone is paid under the counter (which happens all the time, esp in construction, and NOT just w/teh dreaded ILLEGAL), the bus. owner also avoids paying his fair share of a LOT of other taxes.

But since the business owner is probably a white, country club member: hey why not?

Again, though: pay attention. This is what is being sent around to make people mad at "illegals" when really the bigger issue is how business owners (mostly white republicans) are the true beneficiaries.

P.S. Yeah, I don't "get" how Jose Illegal somehow gets a rent subsidy, either. Many illegals live in shacks (literally) that they throw together in less populous places and have no running water and electricity. If that's the "rent subsidy" of which they speak, then I invite these country clubs types to try living like that for one week.

Please spare me the lies, hypocracy and b.s.

Anonymous said...

Response to Mitt Romney example: thanks for that info. I had forgotten about it. EXCELLENT case in point. Everyone got up in arms until they realized that Mitt hadn't done anything wrong. Fine.

But then there was no follow-up on the REAL case in point, which is that the business owner was not on the up & up.

As another post states, paying under the table goes on more than folks think, esp in certain smaller businesses. Who really benefits is the business owner, not so-called "Jose Illegal." And who really loses IS the taxpayer, but again, not so much bc of "Jose Illegal," but bc of the lost business & payroll taxes.

Drives me crazy, too.

This should be the real focus of this email forward, but the person forwarding it is probably a small business owner Republican...

JBW said...

These arguments are not as solid as you might think: http://brainrageblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/joe-legal-vs-jose-illegal.html

vortexgods said...

You know if Joe Legal is having a problem with scabs taking wages less than union standard, he should take it up with his shop steward.

What's that you say? Joe Legal isn't in a union? Joe legal is against unions and votes for politicians who make it hard to organize them.

Why do I care about Joe Legal again?

Anonymous said...

"Again, though: pay attention. This is what is being sent around to make people mad at "illegals" when really the bigger issue is how business owners (mostly white republicans) are the true beneficiaries."

I'd love to see you support your claim of "white republicans" being the greater offenders. Where did you get those stats? Greed does not follow any party line... Blanket statements without supporting data proves nothing other than bias. I can't understand the rigid thought process of staunch republicans or staunch democrats. Both have valid arguments regarding various issues and the real answers lie somewhere in the middle... if people could get past their own egos they'd see that.

And they're BOTH big issues... both are crimes and both should be punished. I don't see either being a bigger issue than the other. And I don't see how being against illegal immigration is racist. That's like saying hating shoplifters is racist... It's a crime and a risk to our security. I welcome immigrants to this country... just go through the proper channels.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon

Its a standard Republican talking point that all business owners are good, hardworking Republicans while all Democrats are lazy freeloaders or ivy tower elitists who contribute nothing of value to the economy or society.

You are correct that the hiring of illegals is a crime committed by both Democrats and Republicans. That is certainly true. But the thing about this email is that it tries to have it both ways. Accoring to this mind set, illegals come here and suck everything dry and take all the jobs from "real" Americans, while there is no need to put blame on the "real" american business owners who commit the crime.

Leave aside the fact that most of this email is pure bunk. The same people who will get whipped into a frenzy at emails like this think nothing of the fact that the businesses they frequent and praise will gladly screw an American worker out of a job and give it to an illegal in order to earn an extra dollar. At best its a double standard, at worst its blatant hypocrisy.

And no, being against illegal immigration is not racist in itself. But using propoganda and lies like this to whip up a nativist frenzy against immigrants (and any "non real" americans) is usually racist, xenophobic, jingoistic, or all of the above.

Anonymous said...

An illegal immigrant making over 30K per year - yeah RIGHT. Sure he does.

"Joe Legal pays for food $1,000.00 per month $12,000.00 per year Joe Legal now has $ 7,231.0"

$1000 per month??? Good gravy, Joe Legal must be like 400 pounds! How the hell do you spend a thousand dollars a month on FOOD, seriously - what does he go out to 5 star restaurants once a week or something??

*reads some more*
wait, what? How does 'jose illegal''s (because of COURSE he's Mexican, he couldn't POSSIBLY be Franz Illegal or Takeshi Illegal, now could he? a'course not!) children enroll in school without a social security card? Or get food stamps, etc? Don't you have to have a social security or green card to get those? And for free lunch program, don't you have to have a proof of your income to show that you qualify?

"Its PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!"

Translation: Of course by Americans we mean WHITE Americans. You don't think we mean those Injuns now, do you?

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